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John Rosemond: Pro-Spanker?

September 1, 2012 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

Conservative  Christian, John Rosemond  “is known for his old-fashioned, Bible-based parenting philosophy and approach” according to Wikipedia.  Because of this, I found was very interested to find out that he does not advocate spanking.  While I do not recommend his parenting advice which I find very harsh and punitive,  I decided to share this information on my blog for the following 2 reasons:

1) If you believe that spanking is Biblically mandated you might be interested to know that John Rosemond disagrees with you on that point.

2) If  you do not spank and someone is trying to convince you that it is Biblically mandated, you can now refer them to well known author John Rosemond.

Note that John Rosemond does not condemn spanking and will defend it from those who argue against it, but he says very clearly in his FAQ that he does not advocate for spanking, does not find it very effective and does not believe that it is Biblically mandated.  He does not go into much detail about how he came to that conclusion, so here is an in depth examination of The Biblical Rod.

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Challies reviews TTUAC

July 31, 2012 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

After his review of Created To Be His Help Meet a few days ago, Tim Challies has decided to review To Train Up A Child, which he does in 2 parts:

Tim Challies Review of To Train Up A Child Part 1 in which he looks at training versus discipline, and his concerns with Pearl’s training.

Tim Challies Review of To Train Up A Child Part 2 in which he looks at the innocent child, the redemptive rod, and gives his conclusion.

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More about Elizabeth Esther and Michael Pearl

December 3, 2011 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

Elizabeth Esther continues to share about her visit on the Anderson Show with Sitting on the couch with Michael Pearl. In this post she shares one clip from the show and shares the rest in the previous post.  We are still hoping to find a video of the entire show which has not yet run in Los Angeles.  I heard that will run in the Los Angeles area Monday, Dec 5 at 4pm on Fox 11, which begs the question, when will the Monday episode run?

 

 

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An Interview with Elizabeth Esther

December 2, 2011 By Hermana Linda 7 Comments

BlogHer Network Interviews Elizabeth Esther about her appearance with Michael Pearl on Anderson Cooper’s daytime Talk Show today (Monday for Los Angeles Viewers).

See a promo here.

Many bloggers are promoting this episode:

Elizabeth Esther Faces Michael Pearl On Anderson by Free By His Grace

The abusive teachings of Michael and Debi Pearl hurt both women and children by Rachel Held Evens.

Keeping Up with Michael Pearl: Interview on Anderson (Cooper’s) Talk Show TODAY (and Pearl’s appearance on Dr. Drew And AC360 and in the NYT….) by Under Much Grace.  (I am grateful for her kind words about this site).

Also, Under Much Grace shares about another Anderson 360 episode from CNN which aired on October 25 which I seem to have missed.  Anyway, the transcript she shares has things in it I had not seen, namely an update about the Willams.

Here is CNN’s Anderson Cooper’s Interview with Michael Pearl (Part II: August 2011)

and here is Michael Pearl’s Interview with Dr. Drew on CNN October 2011 both by Under Much Grace

Speaking of Under Much Grace, she has posted an index to her Why Good People Make Dangerous Choices (Pondering Michael Pearl and Lydia Schatz) series.

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Elizabeth Esther Shares About Pearl

December 1, 2011 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

Elizabeth Esther shares about her experience taping Anderson Cooper’s New Daytime Talk Show with Michael Pearl in My thoughts on @Anderson show airing tomorrow: speaking imperfectly is better than remaining silent #NoMoreDeadKids.

She also gives an important reminder:

The show airs on network television (not cable! not CNN!) tomorrow. To check local listings, go here and find out when it’s on in YOUR area.

updated: if you’re in Southern California, the show has been bumped to air on Monday due to Pac-12 coverage. But clips from the show will be available online at www.andersoncooper.com . Since I have to wait until Monday to watch the whole thing, I’ll be relying on all of you to email me/FB/tweet me your feedback. :)

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Elizabeth Esther on Anderson

November 30, 2011 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

Elizabeth Esther will be appearing on Anderson Cooper’s new daytime talk show (on FOX) with Michael Pearl this Friday (Dec 2, 2011) and she writes about it here, My appearance on Anderson Cooper’s daytime talk show airs this Friday, Dec. 2nd #NoMoreDeadKids.  She includes a link to find out where and when you can watch it in your area. And here is a promo for the show.

Here is another recent post where she explains why many people follow Pearls’ teachings: Seductive promise of perfectly happy, obedient children feeds abuse.

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The Fruit of Sheltered, Controlled Homeschoolers

November 19, 2011 By Hermana Linda 6 Comments

Reb Bradley has a long and very informative article about mistakes he and other sheltering and controlling Christian homeschooling parents have made in Exposing Major Blind Spots of Homeschoolers.

For more information about Reb Bradley’s teachings, please see the comments below as well as this post.

 

 

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Positive Discipline

October 19, 2011 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

Kirk Martin of Calm Christian Parenting asks Is this really defiance? What do YOU think?  (Note:  the comments show that Kirk Martin does not condemn spanking which makes this post a good one to share with pro-spankers)

Along similar lines but for younger children, Pearl in Oyster (PIO) continues her 52 Tool Cards with Teach Children What to Do.

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More Thoughts About Hana Williams

October 12, 2011 By Hermana Linda 1 Comment

C.L. Dyck of Scita Scienda shares her thoughts in Hana Grace Williams and the Myth of My Happiness.

Kathy Cassel of Cassel Crew explains her concerns with To Train Up A Child in (How Not) To Train Up a Child.  Note that she does believe in spanking but more as a last resort than as a first and/or only tool.

The Mule explains more about the Petition to Amazon and Why You Should Sign It.  This is the same petition you see on my sidebar.

Professor Curtis Hutt of the University of Nebraska shares his view concerning the ongoing debate about violence against children on Samuel Martin’s Blog.

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Cybersattva on Pearl Laughing

August 25, 2011 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

Cybersattva responds to Michael Pearl’s comments on Facebook (from March 2010) in Stepping Outside of TTUAC.

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An Email From NGJ

August 24, 2011 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

Patrick Morgan, who writes the  Cybersattva Blog, wrote an email to No Greater Joy Ministries about his concerns with To Train Up A Child.  He received a reply from the Assistant General Manager which he posts along with his commentary. Note that he adds commentary in the comments.

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Hildebrant’s Word Study of Proverbs 22:6a “To Train Up A Child.”

July 11, 2011 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

Here is a link to Ted Hildebrant’s article in the Grace Theological Journal 9.1 (1988) 3-19,  Proverbs 22:6a; To Train Up A Child? which analyses what “To Train Up A Child” really means.

Here is a short quote from the intro:

Careful consideration of lexical and contextual factors suggests that “train up a child in the way he should go” needs to be reexamined. The verb “to train” really refers to a bestowal of status and responsibility.  The noun translated “child” denotes the status of a late adolescent rather than a child.  “In the way he should go” is best understood as “according to what is expected.”   The original intent then of this verse addresses a late adolescent’s entrance into his place in adult society.

As he did not study the word for Rod, this article does not change his ideas about spanking. He does, however, come to the conclusion that the verse does not advocate early childhood training.   He also reminds us that it is a Proverb, not a promise, which is something to keep in mind.

His final conclusion is this:

The parent must not violate the adolescent’s personhood by authoritarian domination, permissive allowance of immaturity, or overprotection from the consequences of his actions.

I must make note of the fact that his Hebrew words were transliterated Right to Left so that they read, “backwards” for us. If you want to read a better version of this article, you may read it here, but you will have to subscribe to the site first.

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TTUAC and Child Abuse

June 21, 2011 By Hermana Linda 9 Comments

Robin of Heart of Wisdom has a nice synopsis of the Dangers of the Pearls’ teachings in Pearl’s To Train Up A Child And Child Abuse. This is a good post for sharing as it contains the Action News Report as well as quotes from TTUAC and a lot of links for further study.

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REAL Parenting Joy

May 16, 2011 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

PfamilyGal expresses her concerns about the Pearls’ teachings in REAL Parenting Joy.

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Does God Want Us To Break Their Wills?

May 3, 2011 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

Elizabeth  Esther has done a post for Rachel Hold Evens which discusses the idea that Even God Does Not Break Our Will.

Along the same lines, The Wartburg Watch has reposted a letter from Bob Dixon explaining Why He Finally Left Sovereign Grace Ministries After 30 years.

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Spanking Infants???

April 12, 2011 By Hermana Linda 1 Comment

Elizabeth Esther posted about the 20/20 exposé of abuse in some IBF churches and interprets Pastor Brian Fuller’s remarks.  She explains the teaching of first time obedience  and how common the spanking of infants really in these churches. By the way, some of the comments of this blog post seem to have inside information in them.

Also, I want to make it clear that  not all Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches have abusive teachings.  I am a member of an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church which does not.  The pastor often reminds us that salvation is by faith in Jesus and what He did alone and you cannot add anything to that.  He reminds us that saying a prayer or baptism or anything else will not save you, you are saved by believing that what Jesus said and did is true.  They do believe in corporal punishment but I have never heard of anyone there spanking an infant or using an implement.  While they might say that they believe in wifely submission, what I see looks more like mutual submission.   I see no signs of the patriarchal movement, most of the women in that church wear pants.  They also cut and dye their hair and nobody says a word about it.  Women work outside the home and girls are expected to go to college.  On top of that, many in  the congregation uses public schools.  So, I don’t know how extensive the abuse in IFB churches is but I believe that churches need to be considered on a church by church basis.  After all, they are independent.

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Kidney Damage and The Pearl Method

April 1, 2011 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

Cindy, of Under Much Grace, explains exactly what Rhabdomyolosis is in, How Do We Track Kidney Failure and Kidney Damage in Children Who Are Trained Using the Pearl Method? She explains that kidney damage is permanent and wonders how many children are living with a chronic yet undiagnosed condition in this important and informative post.

Also, don’t miss this internet radio show about the same topic.

 

Meanwhile, the Schatz trial has been scheduled and both the Chico Enterprise Record and the Paradise Post are running the following story which I will paste here for permanence.

By RYAN OLSON – Staff Writer
Posted: 03/31/2011 12:00:00 AM PDT

OROVILLE — After a couple of postponements, a trial is ready to proceed in the case of a Paradise couple charged with allegedly whipping their adopted daughter to death and torturing another.

Attorneys representing Elizabeth and Kevin Schatz told Butte County Superior Court Judge Kristen Lucena they were ready to begin the trial on April 11.

The trial was initially set to begin in November, but was delayed so attorneys could review thousands of pages of evidence.

A second date for February was set aside in favor the April 11 date.

During Wednesday’s trial readiness conference, Lucena determined the trial would take place in her courtroom.

The prosecution alleges Elizabeth and Kevin Schatz used a length of quarter-inch plumber’s supply line to beat adopted daughters Lydia Schatz, 7, and Zariah Schatz, then 11, during separate “Biblical chastisements” on Feb. 4 and 5, 2010.

Lydia Schatz was taken to Feather River Hospital after the mother reported to 9-1-1 that she had stopped breathing. Zariah Schatz arrived at a Sacramento hospital in critical condition with whip-like marks before recovering.

The Schatzes have pleaded not guilty to charges of murder, torture involving great bodily injury and misdemeanor child abuse. If convicted, each could face a maximum sentence of two life terms in prison.

Before the trial date, there will be an April 8 hearing for motions that should be considered before a jury is selected.

At that time, the defense will
have an opportunity to respond to Butte County District Attorney Mike Ramsey’s recent request to include hearsay evidence based on out-of-court statements from Zariah Schatz.

While Zariah Schatz will be called to testify, Ramsey said outside of court that she had also spoken to police and medical personnel after her sister’s death.

Staff writer Ryan Olson can be reached at 896-7763 or rolson@chicoer.com.

THE CASE: On Feb. 4 and 5, 2010, Elizabeth and Kevin Schatz of Paradise allegedly used a whip-like instrument to discipline two adopted daughters in separate incidents. The 7-year-old daughter stopped breathing and subsequently died from her injuries. The 11-year-old daughter suffered serious injuries but recovered.

THE CHARGES: Both parents face counts of murder, torture involving great bodily injury and misdemeanor child abuse.

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Why Do People Blame the Pearls?

March 8, 2011 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

This post by Elizabeth Esther was written in Feb of 2010 as a response to the Schatz Tragedy.  It is a great post for sharing as it contains a careful explanation of the Pearls’ teachings and how they relate to Lydia’s death as well as her own personal testimony. A link to this post can also be found on In Depth Analysis of Pearl’s Teachings.

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Positive Safety Training

March 5, 2011 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

The Virginia Is For Mothers blog has a nice post about Positive Safety Training.  Apparently she is also teaching her young one to cook.  She compares and contrasts her method of safety training with Pearl’s method.

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TTUAC: The Good, The Bad and The Shocking

January 27, 2011 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

Elizabeth, at Virginia Is For Mothers, reviews To Train Up A Child. In part 1 she shares her overall reaction which is mixed, and then what she found Good and Helpful about the book. I agree that there are some good and helpful messages in that book. To say otherwise is to put up a wall between us and those who are so taken by the good that they downplay the bad or don’t see it at all. There is a lot of good and that is what makes the book so dangerous. Nobody would eat a bitter tasting poison, it needs to be mixed with honey if anyone is going to eat it. And yes, this is is a very good honey.

But Elizabeth is not fooled. She says:

Here’s what I think about To Train Up A Child: SIGH….these people are such a mixed bag of normalcy and wisdom with a whole lot of weird thrown in. It takes a lot of concentration to weed through the information and advice to find pieces that I think are reasonable and biblical. Once again, I did glean some encouragement and reminders to do what I already believe in doing. So, I’m going to start with that and later write about the (many) parts of the book that had me raising my eyebrows, cringing and picking my jaw up off the floor.

Which brings us to Part 2 in which she reminds people not to fall into the error of relying to heavily on one parenting method and then shares what she found Weird, Harsh and Downright Shocking.  She includes plenty of quotes to back up her conclusions.  I’m glad that she is participating in warning people about this book.

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Mixed feelings about Created To Be His Help Meet

January 17, 2011 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

Elizabeth, at Virginia Is For Mothers, reviews Created To Be His Help Meet. While she got a lot of positive things out of it, she has some concerns.  I am linking to this post for 2 reasons.

1) This is a good review to share with people who got a lot out of the book and are wondering what could possibly be wrong with it.  If you share a very negative review with them, they will likely be resistant to the message therein.  This review brings up concerns from someone who, for the most part, liked the book.

2) She is interested to know what others got out of it.   I assume that she will find her way here and may be interested in the other reviews which I have collected.

By the way, she asks what we think about the allegation that Bathsheba can be blamed for enticing King David by bathing on her roof. The roof in those days was what our patios are today, it was probably enclosed and she probably did not expect anyone to be able to see her. I’m not sure if that was the usual custom or not. Also, the Bible says that it was the time when Kings go to war. I have heard many sermons teach that King David had no business in the palace at all because he was supposed to be at war leading his men. It seems to me that she thought that all the men were at war and would not be spying on her. But even if she were trying to entice him, the fault would still be his for not looking away and resisting. We can look at Joseph in his encounter with Potiphar’s wife to see how God expects a man to react to temptation.

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Series about Vision Forum

November 26, 2010 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

Sue Talbert at A Mother’s Heart Blog is writing a very interesting series called Vision Forum, Patriarchy and FLDS, Oh My!

In part 1 she explains how she came to find Vision Forum and read one of their books. She starts describing some objections to their teachings.

In Part 2 she expands on their teachings that women should not go to college or work outside the house (or from the house) and compares that to the FLDS as well as the taliban.

In Part 3 she discusses Bill Gothard and his teachings and how they relate to Vision Forum.

In Part 4 she begins to analyze problems with their teachings. She starts with Clothing / Modesty.

In Part 5 she discusses Reproduction / Quiverfull and the fact that they discourage adoption.

In part 6 she takes a look at their Politics and how they are working to create an Army For God. She also mentions child rearing, perfect obedience of children and wives and the Pearls’ teachings.

In Part 7, She explains Patriarchy and their teachings on Marriage and Wife Only Submission.

In Part 8 she concludes her series by looking at whether the group is Christian or heretical, what draws people to join such a group and her reason for writing the series.

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Enduring Sound Doctrine

October 14, 2010 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

The pastor of Calvary Baptist Church of Temecula says in a post called, Enduring Sound Doctrine:

One writer who started out with some fairly sound material on raising children but has moved subtly away from sound doctrine is Michael Pearl.  I have recently removed all of his material from my personal library and from the church library because of the misguided nature of what he’s lately been teaching.  After some research, I found a number of serious errors in his teachings.

Personally, I do not believe that Mr. Pearl’s doctrine has changed much over the years.  It’s just that the more he writes, the more his doctrine is exposed.

Here are two quotes from his first book, To Train Up A Child, which I feel show some rather questionable doctrine:

The guilt burdened soul cries out for the lashes and nails of justice. Your child cannot yet understand that the Creator has been lashed and nailed in his place. Only the rod of correction can preserve his soul until the day of moral dawning.

The parent holds in his hand (in the form of a little switch) the power to absolve the child of guilt, cleanse his soul, instruct his spirit, strengthen his resolve, and give him a fresh start through a confidence that all indebtedness is paid.

Of course, there are many other quotes from that book which show some very questionable child raising advice. For more analysis of the Pearls’ doctrine, please see these posts as well as the Parenting in the Name of God series.

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Unstringing the Pearls: A Critical Pastoral Assessment

October 5, 2010 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

Unstringing the Pearls: A Critical Pastoral Assessment is a warning from a pastor to his church, updated from a 2006 email. Since this pastor recommends Tripp, this is obviously another argument from someone who promotes spanking and will be tagged appropriately.

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Cult of the Quiverful etc.

September 13, 2010 By Hermana Linda 3 Comments

Joey at Wide White has written an in depth exposé of The cult of the Quiverfull / ATI / Vision Forum movement, Duggars and all.   That is a lot to cover in just one blog post and yes, it is a long one.   While it is mainly about the Patriarchy Movement, Pearl is mentioned a few times.

Proof that he is pro-spanking here: http://widewhite.blogspot.com/2007/01/another-attempt-at-no-spanking-law.html

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More adoption outrage

September 2, 2010 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

The Riggs family is also taking Mr. Pearl to task for his comments about adoption in the 2nd part of today’s blog post. They are commenting on Mr. Pearl’s blog.  I can’t help but wonder what his reply will be.  I have yet to see him to apologize or retract a statement.

Proof that Mr. Riggs believes in spanking: http://www.brentriggsblog.com/2010/01/parenting-in-2010

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Fundamental Baptist Warns Against NGJ

August 26, 2010 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

David Cloud of Fundamental Baptist Information Service has updated his Warning Against No Great Joy Ministries. While he agrees with a lot of what the Pearls teach, he has some serious reservations:

1 ) Exalting the family over the church.
2 ) Sinless Perfection
3 ) Michael Pearl’s duplicitous dealings with the author
4 ) The teaching that Jesus became a sinner (!)

He then includes some testimonies of people who have written to him in response to his previous writings. That is where you will find some discussion of Rebekah Pearl and her dreams.

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Living Creatively’s book review of TTUAC

August 24, 2010 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

Living Creatively has posted a book review of To Train Up a Child called, To Train Up a Child OR you could call it How to Abuse a Child.

She started her research when a friend asked her about the book and was properly shocked. She gives her own thoughts and then shares another review and some good links.

This blog writer is not against spanking, she says so in the comment section of her post, so I am tagging it appropriately.

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Homemaker’s Corner Examines the Pearls

August 6, 2010 By Hermana Linda 2 Comments

At first glance, Mary Stephens of the Homemaker’s Corner looks like a typical Pearl follower.  She is strictly King James Only and believes strongly in submissive wives who are keepers at home.  However, she uses God’s Word as her light and the Pearls’ persuasive prattle did not fare well under the searching light of Scripture. She has written an in depth examination of the Pearls. This is not limited to Michael and Debi, but also includes Rebekah and her husband as part of the Pearl Family.

This is quite an undertaking she has started.  She apparently has not had time to finish her study, having only answered 3 out of the 8 questions she presents.  However, she already has quite a lot up there and I find it quite interesting on a few levels.

For one thing, this is the first time that I have noticed someone who feels strongly that the King James Bible is the only real Bible speaking out against the Pearls. While Michael Pearl does, indeed, use KJV only; she determines that he does not always use it correctly.  She also brings up the very valid concern that Pearl appears to believe that the KJV more than the original Greek. (!)

She exposes the fact that the Pearls use very little scripture to back up their conclusions.  She actually counts the scriptures they use.  The has done a very thorough investigation here. Her conclusion is:

From reading their material it appears that the Pearls are basically offering their own homebrewed child psychology. A little psychology, a little Bible and a lot of the Pearls’ philosophy and ideas go into the mix.

Another good  observation is how Pearl seems to have undue influence over his followers and how dangerous that is.  Here is another quote from the link in the above paragraph:

Please notice how the Pearls’ speaking, leadership and words have become so important in these people’s home. This is pathetic. Where is God’s word? Why is it that she feels they would benefit so much more from having the Pearls right there to help them? They have the God of the universe, the Almighty, the Great I AM, the Creator of the human race and the Institutor of the family indwelling them if they are saved! And, if they possess the King James Bible, they have His very words and instructions for mankind in their own hands and language. Isn’t that enough?! Apparently the Pearls’ teachings have conveyed to them that God and His word are not enough! This is horrifying.

She also has posted a critique on Debi Pearl’s study of the book of Esther.

I have not found her saying anything anti-spanking so I’m going to assume that I have found another pro-spanker speaking out against the Pearls teachings and tag it according.  I also base this assumption on what she said about discipline in her ABC’s of Raising Children (under D for Discipline).

Edited to add: Mary has clarified her position on spanking in a comment to this post.

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Another pro-spanker speaks up

June 11, 2010 By Hermana Linda Leave a Comment

Another negative book review of TTUAC by a pro-spanker. I’m praising God that more people are taking a stand against this book. Jenni Lenc has good insight as to some of the major problems with these teachings, although she is careful not to be too harsh in her condemnation of them. A very good piece to share with Pearl followers who are asking you to explain your concerns.

To Train Up a Child by Michael and Debi Pearl from His Story In Lenc

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