Dara Stoltzfus looks at the question, if discipline equals punishment, why does (Self) Discipline not equal (Self) Punishment ?
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RedditDara Explains Natural Consequences
March 25, 2013 13 Comments
Note from Hermana Linda: Pam continues to ask thought provoking questions about how one can raise children without spanking. In This comment, she asks,
What do you mean by natural consequences? I think some of those are what I hoped for my children to avoid and why I view some punishment as a necessary part of discipline. Am I misunderstanding?
Dara Stoltzfus answered her question so well, I have asked her to reproduce her comment here. (Dara, I think I speak for everyone when I say, please don’t apologize for your many insightful words. )
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Discipline VS Neglect
March 19, 2013 13 Comments
Note from Hermana Linda: We appreciate getting comments and read every one. This comment from Pam is so long that Steph decided to respond in a post, so here it is.
Hi Steph,
Though I don’t consider myself to be “pro” spanking, I am pro-discipline, and I do believe that infrequent spanking can be part of an over-all discipline plan, when done properly and with love. I have raised two boys and I have two grandsons. I’ve also, taught children and volunteered to work with children in many circumstances. I care about kids and child abuse is a deep concern of mine. I was an abused child, in the forms of medical neglect, emotional neglect, emotional abuse, emotional incest, and sexual abuse by a predator. I also, found myself in several abusive situations as an adult and I agree that children are born with natural ways of standing up for themselves that shouldn’t be taken from them. We all need to be able to protect ourselves. I also, believe that children can be defiant and they need help in learning to use defiance as a way to protect themselves and not as a means of ending up in prison. Part of the neglect I experienced as a child had to do with discipline. I don’t remember any spankings but I was allowed to eat only candy to the point of having fillings in all of my teeth by the time I was six (I also, had abscesses) and all of my teeth falling out by the third grade. My parents excuse this by blaming it on me and my refusal to eat so, they let me eat what I wanted and all I wanted was candy. I was also, sick a lot and they gave me alcohol as medication, I think it put me to sleep and I was less of a bother. The first time they gave me too much and made me drunk was when I was cutting my first teeth. They’ve always told this as a such a funny story… [Read more...]
Goal of Parenting
January 21, 2013 Leave a Comment
We continue our look at the goal of parenting.
Dara Stoltzfus examines Cooperation vs Compliance: Love vs Fear.
The Hippie Housewife considers Asking the right questions.
Punishment Works?
January 7, 2013 Leave a Comment
Claire, over at Dare To Disciple, continues with her Myth Busting series with Punishment Works.
The Christian and The Explosive Child
December 21, 2012 Leave a Comment
Wendy at Practical Theology for Women shares A Christian Perspective on the Explosive Child. In this post she recommends the very helpful book, The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene.
I see that she also has her own Rod Study as well as a look at Discipline vs. Punishment.
Sarah’s Arguments Against Spanking
August 1, 2012 Leave a Comment
Sarah, of Under the Olive Branch, explains why she does not believe in spanking in a well researched and chatty post entitled, A person’s a person no matter how small. She also answers some common arguments for spanking with counter arguments, which many will find helpful.
Challies reviews TTUAC
July 31, 2012 Leave a Comment
After his review of Created To Be His Help Meet a few days ago, Tim Challies has decided to review To Train Up A Child, which he does in 2 parts:
Tim Challies Review of To Train Up A Child Part 1 in which he looks at training versus discipline, and his concerns with Pearl’s training.
Tim Challies Review of To Train Up A Child Part 2 in which he looks at the innocent child, the redemptive rod, and gives his conclusion.
Punishment
July 16, 2012 Leave a Comment
Sarah at Under The Olive Branch shares a very thought provoking quote about punishment.
While you are there, check out her love story The Restoration of All Things.
Discipline without Harm Part 2
May 22, 2012 Leave a Comment
In the last piece we looked at how Proverbs 22:6 means to discipline children in a way that works with them instead of against them. God is not an adversarial Parent to us, therefore, we should not be adversarial parents with our children as we are also sinners and actually sin more than our children do. The purpose of this series is to learn how to discipline our children in a manner that will lead them to God instead of away from Him. We must provide gentle yet firm discipline to our children. In this piece we will look at how to validate feelings, deal with temper tantrums, and why we shouldn’t use time-out as punishment but instead use something known as “time-IN” to help children calm down in a helpful way.
Validating Feelings—“It’s My Party and I’ll Cry if I Want to!”
Many people fail to realize just how much of an emotional life infants have right from birth. The young infant feels happy, sad, angry, and scared. But because crying is the only way of communicating their feelings, many infants do not get the validation that they require. Tragically, some infants are ignored and/or punished for crying. It is very important to understand that infants’ emotions are also their needs, and those needs must always be responded to in a sensitive and respectful manner. “It seems wise for caregivers to make the assumption that infants of all ages have feelings, since it helps us to understand their needs. The interventions we make that are consonant with our interpretations of infant emotions often seem to have the intended effect. We pick up a crying baby to soothe what we believe to be the child’s pain or discomfort as much as to stop the crying, and the subsequent relaxation of the infant confirms our belief about his or her feelings” (Fogel, 2011, p. 280). [Read more...]
Contemplating Gentle Discipline
March 28, 2012 Leave a Comment
Molly contemplates what Gentle Discipline means to her in Beyond The Ideas.
CNN Story on Christian Talk Radio
February 29, 2012 1 Comment
Jeri, the Owner of Gentle Christian Mothers, just sent me an interesting link. This is a Talk Radio Show about the CNN coverage of the Schatz Story from Aug 18, 2011. The half hour show is called, Issues Etc. and the host is Told Wilken. After playing the audio of the CNN show, he accepts calls and emails from his listeners to discuss the question, “Is Spanking Required in the Bible?”. His conclusion seems to be that it is not mandated but neither it is prohibited. The key to him is discipline.
And in the latest news about the Pearls, they just released a new book. I see that Amazon is not at all concerned about the Petition.
Logical Consequences vs Punishment
February 27, 2012 Leave a Comment
Pearl in Oyster (PIO) takes a look at Logical Consequences vs Punishment as she continues her 52 Tool Cards Series.
Bonus post: Sibling Rivalry? From the Mouth of Babes. <3
The Effects of Spanking Part 6 *Sensitive*
February 21, 2012 4 Comments
(Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (Part 4) (Part 5)
In the last part of this series we saw how teaching children to equate love with pain can cause them to become sadomasochistic. We also saw how spanking children, even when done “lovingly” and the “right way,” causes many children to struggle with depression, guilt, and shame as having pain intentionally inflicted on them by their parents never makes them feel positive about themselves. In this concluding piece of this series, we will see how spanking keeps the vicious cycle of abuse and authoritarian parenting going for generations unless one fights against it. New research shows that children that are physically punished/abused can develop a form of Stockholm Syndrome as they deny and repress their pain. Also, I will be showing that intentionally inflicting pain on children causes brain damage as the brain gets rewired due to experiencing pain and trauma throughout childhood. Many parents do not realize how vulnerable the young, developing brain is. Finally, I will be explaining the Scientific Method of conducting research in order to disprove the claim of a great deal of pro-spankers that all the research proving spanking is harmful is somehow biased. I hope this series further proves that spanking did not come from God otherwise none of these harmful effects would ever occur.
The Cycle of Abuse and Authoritarian Parenting—“My parents spanked me and I survived and so will my children!”
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Does God Spank His Children?
January 24, 2012 Leave a Comment
Carissa Robinson delves into the question, “Does God Spank His Children?“
Commandments for Parents
January 20, 2012 Leave a Comment
Dulce de Leche explains how some parents inadvertently set themselves up as idols in The 10 Commandments for Parents: No Other Gods.
Alison Strobel explains Golden Rule Parenting.
Elizabeth Esther Explains the Popularity of TTUAC
December 7, 2011 Leave a Comment
Elizabeth Esther explains How “To Train Up A Child” Got So Popular in a video.
Meanwhile, Dulce de Leche considers Defiance and the Thought Police in a very important post. Are you punishing your children for obeying but with a defiant attitude? Are you expecting them to obey right away with a convincing smile? If so, you are ordering them to pretend to feel something they don’t. You are ordering them to lie and be hypocrites. God does not have a problem with emotional outbursts, but He hates lying and hypocrisy. Dulce also warns,
The child is left with two options: lie convincingly or never question anything internally, not even to understand it better . . . Over years of practice, both options are exceedingly dangerous. You wind up with a compulsive people pleaser who will lie convincingly without qualm or someone who believes everything and never thinks for himself.
The Effects Of Spanking Part 5 *Sensitive*
November 29, 2011 9 Comments
(Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (Part 4)
In the previous piece we discovered that fear is the main effect of corporal punishment that all children experience despite the Bible clearly stating that fear is not from God. We also saw in the previous piece that “loving, godly” spankings are indeed harmful to children despite what many pro-spankers continue to claim. The research and numerous anecdotes (personal stories) show that hitting “in love,” and in the Name of God often has damaging effects on children even if they deny and repress these effects. In this piece we will be discussing an effect of “lovingly” spanking that has only recently come to my attention. Many people are unaware of the fact that “love” spankings causes sexual problems for children and adults as they seek to turn something painful and out of their control into something pleasant and somewhat controllable. This brief discussion may cause discomfort. We will also discuss how physical punishment often leads to depression, shame, and guilt as spanking never makes one feel good about oneself.
“Love” Spankings Continued—“Children are not sexual beings.”
Many people, in general, believe the above statement to be true. While children do not understand sexuality in the way that adults do, they have the ability at birth to become somewhat aroused and to feel pleasure. This is why young children very innocently explore their bodies during diaper changes and baths. This is a very normal and healthy part of the young child’s development. By the age of two, most young children are beginning to notice the differences between males and females and will ask questions out of pure curiosity. Simple, honest answers are all that young children want and need. While a child’s budding sexuality should be respected, their innocence and purity must be protected. [Read more...]
Behaviorism at the Root of Child Training
August 22, 2011 1 Comment
Carissa Robinson explains that “If you observe most recommended Christian parenting practices today, you might be surprised to discover a secular influence: behavioral psychology” in Awaken Their Hearts.
Meanwhile, Greenegem explains the error in thinking that we have to DO anything more than believe in order to be saved in No Assembly Required.
A Wrong Turn On The Parenting Journey
July 25, 2011 Leave a Comment
Dulce de Leche shares how she made a Wrong Turn in her parenting and how she corrected it. Here is more about Correcting the Course.
Reflecting the Character of God
July 22, 2011 Leave a Comment
The Hippie Housewife discusses how we should reflect the character of God for our children. She looks at how attachment parenting looks a lot like how God cares for us and warns us about 3 heresies which are cropping up in many Christian teachings.
Along the same lines, Pearl In Oyster (PIO) explains that we should imitate how God disciplines His children. She uses her testimony of how God treated her when she was out of His will as an example.
The Christian History of Spanking Part 6
July 18, 2011 2 Comments
( Part 1 ) ( Part 2 ) ( Part 3) (Part 4) (Part 5)
This will be the conclusion of this series in which we have explored and discovered some of the origins of spanking children within Christianity. It was my goal to show that spanking is from man and not God, as so many well-meaning Christians have believed throughout the ages. In this paper, I will show how the idea of controlling children dates back to the early church in the ancient world, look at how Catholicism has advocated and used physical punishment with children, show the likely origin of the “Christian rules of how to spank children,” and will conclude with explaining Behaviorism and how physical punishment falls under that very old and outdated branch of Psychology.
The Origins of the Christian Need to Control Children
Many Christian advocates of spanking as well as the parents who follow these advocates are often quite concerned with controlling their children’s behavior, and really, one could say controlling their children. Advocates such as James Dobson, the Ezzos, the Pearls, and others teach parents that they must be in control of their children from birth. They claim that newborn infants must be taught that their parents are the bosses, not them. If this sounds familiar, it is because control and breaking children’s wills go hand and hand. We’ve seen how breaking the child’s will has been advocated for and done by Christians throughout history despite there being no biblical grounds for doing such a thing (See Parts 1, 2, & 3 for more info on breaking children’s wills). This need for adults to control their children dates back to New Testament times. In fact, certain verses of the New Testament are used to try and justify controlling one’s children. [Read more...]
The Effect of Spanking on Children
July 9, 2011 1 Comment
Carissa Robinson shares a true story of how spanking affected one child growing up in Lock ‘Em Up, Throw Away the Key.
Fruits of Gentle Discipline
June 29, 2011 Leave a Comment
Dulce de Leche explains how she came to chose Gentle Discipline 7 years ago and examines the fruits of her decision in 7 Year Harvest.
Responses to Our Critics
May 20, 2011 Leave a Comment
pFamilyGal considers the question of whether it is right for Christians to condemn the Pearls’ teachings in Called to Judge.
Pearl In Oyster (PIO) responds to her critics in More Thoughts on Biblical Parenting where she discusses Divine Punishment vs. Grace, Spanking for Danger Situations and the Rod Verses.
Book Review: Thy Rod and Thy Staff, They Comfort Me, Part II
May 18, 2011 Leave a Comment
Dulce de Leche has finally posted part 2 of her book review of Samuel Martin’s book, Thy Rod and Thy Staff, They Comfort Me where she discusses the content of the book chapter by chapter.
Appearances
May 13, 2011 Leave a Comment
BarefootBetsy writes about how worrying about what others think affects our parenting on Dare to Disciple.
Understanding The Nature of Children
April 16, 2011 1 Comment
Discipleship Parenting writes about Understanding the Nature of Children in which she looks at what the Bible says about the nature of infants and children and what our response to them should be.
Dulce de Leche also writes about the sin nature of babies in Sons of Adam Daughters of Eve.
The Christian History of Spanking Part 3
April 12, 2011 Leave a Comment
Jonathan Wesley (1703-1791) is known as the founder of Methodism, and for the effects he had (and still has) on the education of children and adults. In Part 2, I looked at the child-rearing practices of his mother, Susanna Wesley, whom many Christian advocates of spanking hold up as a model for Christian mothers. Susanna gave John special attention as he almost died in one of the house fires. John deeply loved his mother, and it has been said that he didn’t think he could ever find a woman like his mother to marry. Now, before we say that his mother’s child-rearing practices couldn’t have been that bad if he loved her that much, it is well documented that abused children that have been taken away from their abusive parents will cry and ask, “If I’m really good tomorrow, can I go home to my mommy and daddy?” As I point out in Part 5 of my series called, “Spanking is NOT God’s Will,” children have a very forgiving nature and love their parents no matter what. That’s how I was with my dad despite his physical abuse. He said he was sorry many times throughout my childhood, and I always forgave him. Now some pro-spankers may argue that there’s a line between abuse and spanking. My dad never left marks on my body, but it was indeed abuse as he’d hit and be rough with me for things out of my control. My mom only spanked me once, and though she never apologized, I forgave her within the week. Though both my parents were wrong for hitting me, I’ve long forgiven both of them and have a great relationship with my mom. So, for all those who claim spankings didn’t hurt them, I must ask that they truly think about how they felt right before, during, and afterwards because when children are hurt by the closest people in their lives, it does harm and hurt, otherwise there wouldn’t be so much denial and controversy over using physical punishment with our children! And if spanking (hitting) children was ordained by God, then there would be NO questions or controversy among Christians and the secular world regarding the amount of harm spanking a child does as Scripture clearly states, “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. [Read more...]
Biblical Perspectives on Spanking
April 7, 2011 1 Comment
Ordained Minister( and Parenting and Relationship expert) Thomas Haller has written an article with Chick Moorman called, Biblical Perspectives on Spanking in which they take a closer look at the typical verses which are considered to command parents to spank.
Samuel Martin’s book, Thy Rod and Thy Staff They Comfort Me, also studies those verses, as well as Jewish attitudes towards children in Biblical times. Brenda King of Positively Feminine has a book review of his book and is also offering a chance to win a free copy of it.
In other news, I have updated yesterday’s post with part III of the series.
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