Anderson Cooper 360 Takes Another Look At The Pearls

Andersoon Cooper 360 has taken their old footage from the interview Gary Tuchman did with Pearls back in Oct 2011 and the stories they did about the death of Lydia Schatz and remixed it with new footage about Hana “Williams,” in this new episode of Godly Discipline. They then discuss the Pearls’ culpability or lack of it, in the deaths. You will find both parts of this show (in 2 videos) on this page. You will find the transcript here. The segment in question starts about 2/3 of the way down. The easiest way to find it would be to use the find feature and search for “To Train Up A Child.”

Note: Here is more information about the Find Feature.

In case anyone is wondering, I am not in favor of holding the Pearls legally accountable.  The parents are to blame for following man instead of God.  Yes, the Bible does say that teachers bear a greater responsibility and God’s judgement will be fair.  I do believe that the teachings are dangerous and do my best to convince parents not to follow them and bookstores not to sell them. However, I am not trying to get the book banned, nor to harm the Pearls in any way.

 

Debi Pearl Thinks It’s A Lie

And also important, a book was found inside, a book that appeared to light the fuse to the deadly brutality. The book is called "To Train Up a Child."

“And also important, a book was found inside, a book that appeared to light the fuse to the deadly brutality. The book is called ‘To Train Up a Child.'”

Poor Debi Pearl, she is so confused.  It is so very sad.  She considers our warnings against her and her husband’s teachings to be a lie, akin to the lies Hitler told.   She states in this article that  the parents who killed their children never read their books and that they were not found in their homes.  How can she really believe that when the official documents (*trigger warning*) say that they did find their books*?   Not only that, but many friends of the families have confirmed to me that they were avid Pearl followers who not only recommended their books but even gave them away.  I have explained our problems and concerns with their teachings over and over again and can only assume that they are so sure that they are lies that they don’t even read them.  There are none so blind as those who will not see.

*The link above marked trigger warning is the sheriff’s affidavit of what was found in the Williams house.  The CNN report says that the book To Train Up A Child (shown in my featured image) was found in the Schatz house.

Another Abusive School on CNN

Under Much Grace shares the transcripts and video of CNN’s report on Pinehaven Home for Troubled Teens in a 3 part series which starts here.

 

CNN Story on Christian Talk Radio

Jeri, the Owner of Gentle Christian Mothers, just sent me an interesting link.  This is a Talk Radio Show about the CNN coverage of the Schatz Story from Aug 18, 2011.  The half hour show is called, Issues Etc. and the host is Told Wilken.  After playing the audio of the CNN show, he accepts calls and emails from his listeners to discuss the question, “Is Spanking Required in the Bible?”.  His conclusion seems to be that it is not mandated but neither it is prohibited.   The key to him is discipline.

And in the latest news about the Pearls, they just released a new book.  I see that Amazon is not at all concerned about the Petition.

Pearl and Esther on Anderson – The Video

Finally the long awaited video of Michael Pearl and Elizabeth Esther on Anderson:

Part 1 in which Michael Pearl is interviewed and Elizabeth Esther arrives and explains why his teachings are wrong.

Part 2 in which Michael Pearl explains more of his teachings and the audience responds.

Part 3 in which D.A. in the Schatz case, Mike Ramsey, explains why he believes Michael Pearl’s teachings are dangerous.

Part 4 in which Mike & Trisha Fox say that they use Pearl’s teachings, (but not the rod)  and the audience responses some more.

Note:  Ignore the first few seconds of the first video.  😉

Many thanks to VHSScott for uploading these.

Responses to Pearl on Anderson

I have yet to watch Michael Pearl and Elizabeth Esther on Anderson other than a few clips.  I hope to someday find it online in its entirely at which time I will certainly link.  By the way, it will be airing in the Los Angeles Area on FOX 11 at 1pm.   Meanwhile, here are some responses from the Blogosphere.

Hannah of Emotional Abuse And Your Faith asks, Do we understand insensitivity?

Cindy of Under Much Grace answers the question, What is Biblical Chastisement?
as well as, Why is the Pearl Method So Insidious and Dangerous?

MamaPsalmist reacts in No More Dead Kids and its followup, And Another Thing.

More about Elizabeth Esther and Michael Pearl

Elizabeth Esther continues to share about her visit on the Anderson Show with Sitting on the couch with Michael Pearl. In this post she shares one clip from the show and shares the rest in the previous post.  We are still hoping to find a video of the entire show which has not yet run in Los Angeles.  I heard that will run in the Los Angeles area Monday, Dec 5 at 4pm on Fox 11, which begs the question, when will the Monday episode run?

 

 

An Interview with Elizabeth Esther

BlogHer Network Interviews Elizabeth Esther about her appearance with Michael Pearl on Anderson Cooper’s daytime Talk Show today (Monday for Los Angeles Viewers).

Many bloggers are promoting this episode:

Elizabeth Esther Faces Michael Pearl On Anderson by Free By His Grace

Keeping Up with Michael Pearl: Interview on Anderson (Cooper’s) Talk Show TODAY (and Pearl’s appearance on Dr. Drew And AC360 and in the NYT….) by Under Much Grace.  (I am grateful for her kind words about this site).

Also, Under Much Grace shares about another Anderson 360 episode from CNN which aired on October 25 which I seem to have missed.  Anyway, the transcript she shares has things in it I had not seen, namely an update about the Willams.

Here is CNN’s Anderson Cooper’s Interview with Michael Pearl (Part II: August 2011)

and here is Michael Pearl’s Interview with Dr. Drew on CNN October 2011 both by Under Much Grace

Speaking of Under Much Grace, she has posted an index to her Why Good People Make Dangerous Choices (Pondering Michael Pearl and Lydia Schatz) series.

Elizabeth Esther Shares About Pearl

Elizabeth Esther shares about her experience taping Anderson Cooper’s New Daytime Talk Show with Michael Pearl in My thoughts on @Anderson show airing tomorrow: speaking imperfectly is better than remaining silent #NoMoreDeadKids.

She also gives an important reminder:

The show airs on network television (not cable! not CNN!) tomorrow. To check local listings, go here and find out when it’s on in YOUR area.

updated: if you’re in Southern California, the show has been bumped to air on Monday due to Pac-12 coverage. But clips from the show will be available online at www.andersoncooper.com . Since I have to wait until Monday to watch the whole thing, I’ll be relying on all of you to email me/FB/tweet me your feedback. :)

Elizabeth Esther on Anderson

Elizabeth Esther will be appearing on Anderson Cooper’s new daytime talk show (on FOX) with Michael Pearl this Friday (Dec 2, 2011) and she writes about it here, My appearance on Anderson Cooper’s daytime talk show airs this Friday, Dec. 2nd #NoMoreDeadKids.  She includes a link to find out where and when you can watch it in your area. And here is a promo for the show.

Here is another recent post where she explains why many people follow Pearls’ teachings: Seductive promise of perfectly happy, obedient children feeds abuse.

AC360 Continues to look at Ungodly Discipline

On Friday Nov 25, Anderson Cooper continued his look at Ungodly Discipline. Here is the video and here is the transcript.

Also, here is more about Spanking in Christian Schools aired on Dec 1, 2011.

Michael Pearl and Anderson Cooper

Michael will appear with Anderson Cooper on Friday Dec 2, 2011.  I assume that this will be the long awaited episode of which Elizabeth Esther spoke.

Meanwhile, Alexandra Ossola has made a petition asking the American Family Association to denounce the book To Train Up a Child as it advocates legitimized abuse.

Where Did Pearl Say This?

In this interview in the National Post, Pearl is quoted as saying:

But, I have said many times, when a spanking is not working, stop doing it. There are times when children become so emotionally torn that they have ceased all cognitive activity. Spanking is then counterproductive.

Frankly, I don’t recall him every saying that.  If he has published this sentiment, I would like to know where because this quote needs much exposure.  His followers need to be aware that he says this because this could really make a difference in the life of some children and maybe even save a life.  Although, it is still rather vague, it is a step in the right direction.

Edited to add:  Apparently Pearl was referring to this article where he said

You should not spank beyond your fellowship with the child. If you feel that your spanking is excessive, it is because it is not working. If it is not working to produce happy, creative kids, then you are missing one of the other elements we discussed. You have probably forgotten how to relax and enjoy your children. Or perhaps you have failed to train. The bottom line is that if other things are equal, and you give a child a spanking every time he needs it, the time will soon come when he will not need to be spanked so often, and eventually not at all.

More doublespeak.  In the next breath he accuses them of failing to train properly and promises that if you are consistent things will get better.  He have seen him accuse people of deliberately misunderstanding his meaning, but I really feel that he is vague and expecting people to make mental leaps which not all people are able to make.

Also, if anyone knows where he got these statistics which he quotes, I’d be interested.  Was it from the research study or somewhere else?

Research has shown that the properly trained, nurtured and spanked child scores higher on all positive measures both as a child and as an adult. Spanking as part — a small part — of a comprehensive nurturing process instills self control and disciplined in a child, rendering him more emotionally stable and balanced as an adult. Every child was spanked up until Dr. Spock. Now only about 75% are spanked with no malice aforethought, and another 20% are occasionally spanked or hit by angry out of control parents that profess not to believe in it…

In his interview on AC360 Mr. Pearl mentioned the same research on spanking and Anderson Cooper delves deeper into that in another segment.  Before linking I want to warn you that it opens with the very upsetting video of Judge William Adams beating his daughter.  After that it recaps prior interviews with Michael Pearl and then moves on to Dr. Drew Pinsky and Po Bronson talking to Anderson Cooper about the science behind physically disciplining children. In The Science of Spanking, Anderson Cooper asks Dr. Drew Pinsky and Po Bronson what they think of the Pearl method and it should come as no surprise that they did not find it healthy in any way, shape or form.

The only problem with this interview is that they make a big point of discussing how spanking in anger is even more damaging.  This will probably cause Pearl and most of his followers to argue that spanking without anger will cause no damage at all.  They are so very wrong.  But then of course, Pearl and his followers tend to discount science except for when it supports their beliefs so it’s probably a moot point.

Responses to Michael Pearl’s Defense on CNN

Here are some responses to Michael Pearl’s Interview on CNN‘s A360.

Michael Pearl Defends Book By Using Pragmatism by GraceGirl at Free By His Grace

Christian doctrine doesn’t condone abuse by Emilie Eaton at StatePress.com

And here are some responses to the Williams case:

The Digital Journal looks at the Pearls and the spanking controversy in The debate continues on ‘spanking’ children in the name of God.

Meanwhile,  Christian Book Shop Talk warns about To Train Up A Child in, Selling This Title Could Lead to Huge Legal Costs.

Michael Pearl Interviewed on CNN

Michael Pearl was interviewed by Anderson Cooper on this videoHere is the transcript, it’s about half way down.  His double speak is very obvious here.

In case that link ever is removed, Chucklestravels has posted it http://chucklestravels.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/showdown-on-cnn-anderson-cooper-interviews-michael-pearl-transcript/

Hana “Williams” Story on CNN

Gary Tuchman of CNN covers the case of Hana Alemu (legally Hana Williams as she was adopted by Larry and Carri Williams) on A360 in Ungodly Discipline. They plan to look closer at the book, To Train Up A Child by Michael and Debi Pearl.

The next day they featured an interview with Michael Pearl.   Here is the transcript. The part in question is about half way down.

Also  on CNN, Dr. Drew interviews Michael Pearl about his book, To Train Up A Child, in an episode called, Preaching discipline that can kill?  This video seems to be just an excerpt.  If I find the entire show, I will replace the link.

Hephzibah House on CNN

Under Much Grace reports all about CNN’s coverage of Hephzibah House complete with video and links to the transcript.  She highlights outtakes from the transcripts on her blog.

CNN Exposes the Pearls’ Teachings

CNN  has done an exposeé on the Pearls’ teachings and has implicated them in the death of Lydia Schatz. This series features a close look at the Lydia Schatz case,an interview with Michael and Debi Pearl as well as an interview with D.A. Mike Ramsey who says that he blames the Pearl’s teachings for Lydia’s death.

Here is Part 1.

Here is Part 2.

Here is Part 3

You can find transcripts here including cut scenes.

They did not really explain why the Pearls’ teachings are implicated because they did not explain what these teachings are.  This goes far beyond a simple spanking debate.  I link to many articles which explain this and have been meaning to put it all together in one post.  I thought I had done it here, but upon taking another look at it, I see that I was waiting until after the  trial to flesh it out.  I’ll put that on my to do list.  Meanwhile, please look at my categories for The Pearls’ Teachings above and the sub categories, especially Counter Arguments.  If you have time, check out posts which dig deeper into the Pearls’ teachings with in depth analysis. I hope that you will also find my tags helpful for narrowing down the information you seek.

Note, here are some quotes from To Train Up A Child by Michael Pearl, the book which started the controversy.

My first collection of news stories.

Reactions in the blogosphere.

More news stories and reactions..

CBS did an investigative report about the Schatz and other child abuse stories.

And then a Plea Deal Reached in Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz Murder Case.

They were sentenced to prison.

All mentions of the Schatz story can be found under my Schatz tag.